Comments on: Architects aren’t paid enough because 1: they don’t make enough money http://www.justpractising.com/whatgoodarchitectsdo/architects-aren%e2%80%99t-paid-enough-because-1-they-don%e2%80%99t-make-enough-money/ So what do those architect types do then eh? Thu, 02 Sep 2010 21:22:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Tweets that mention Architects aren’t paid enough because 1: they don’t make enough money — Just Practising -- Topsy.com http://www.justpractising.com/whatgoodarchitectsdo/architects-aren%e2%80%99t-paid-enough-because-1-they-don%e2%80%99t-make-enough-money/comment-page-1/#comment-1672 Tweets that mention Architects aren’t paid enough because 1: they don’t make enough money — Just Practising -- Topsy.com Tue, 10 Aug 2010 21:00:22 +0000 http://www.justpractising.com/?p=846#comment-1672 [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Su Butcher, Su Butcher. Su Butcher said: Great comment from a woman "scolded for implying that architecture should be treated like a business in my university." http://ow.ly/2nL7o [...] [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Su Butcher, Su Butcher. Su Butcher said: Great comment from a woman "scolded for implying that architecture should be treated like a business in my university." http://ow.ly/2nL7o [...]

]]> By: su http://www.justpractising.com/whatgoodarchitectsdo/architects-aren%e2%80%99t-paid-enough-because-1-they-don%e2%80%99t-make-enough-money/comment-page-1/#comment-1671 su Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:46:15 +0000 http://www.justpractising.com/?p=846#comment-1671 Hi Tumi, Thanks for your input, I'm glad it has encouraged you. Don't be discouraged from pursuing your own creative directions though, I really believe it is possible to do both. The point is to look for clients who need your particular creative direction. If there are enough of them (or they are willing to pay enough for it) there is no reason your business can't be profitable. Hi Tumi,
Thanks for your input, I’m glad it has encouraged you.
Don’t be discouraged from pursuing your own creative directions though, I really believe it is possible to do both. The point is to look for clients who need your particular creative direction. If there are enough of them (or they are willing to pay enough for it) there is no reason your business can’t be profitable.

]]> By: Tumi http://www.justpractising.com/whatgoodarchitectsdo/architects-aren%e2%80%99t-paid-enough-because-1-they-don%e2%80%99t-make-enough-money/comment-page-1/#comment-1662 Tumi Tue, 10 Aug 2010 00:36:28 +0000 http://www.justpractising.com/?p=846#comment-1662 Hi Su, what a fantastic article!! You woud not believe that I have been scolded for implying that I believe that architecture should be treated like a business in my university. I am a business woman at heart, and it does worry me, all the people telling me, not to follow my passion for money. I didn't agree with the 'poor artist' idea, that many are so comfortable with within this industry. I have sold many design things before, I have designed logos, websites and many more things, and I understand that architecture is very different, but like anything design-orientated, the client should be the center of focus. I don't believe that we should push our own ideas on our clients, an architecture company should be more focused on pleasing its clients than creating an image for itself. In this economic crisis (UK) we don't have space to do what WE want anymore, hopefully this will reshuffle our points of views, so that we understand that we should start making pur processes more efficient for architects. In the UK you don't need an architect to design a building, we haven't listened to clients for so long that they are frustrated with us, most people are willing to gamble with low sums of money, but a home, a dream, a future, they are not willing to be pushed about. Hi Su, what a fantastic article!!

You woud not believe that I have been scolded for implying that I believe that architecture should be treated like a business in my university.

I am a business woman at heart, and it does worry me, all the people telling me, not to follow my passion for money.

I didn’t agree with the ‘poor artist’ idea, that many are so comfortable with within this industry. I have sold many design things before, I have designed logos, websites and many more things, and I understand that architecture is very different, but like anything design-orientated, the client should be the center of focus.

I don’t believe that we should push our own ideas on our clients, an architecture company should be more focused on pleasing its clients than creating an image for itself.

In this economic crisis (UK) we don’t have space to do what WE want anymore, hopefully this will reshuffle our points of views, so that we understand that we should start making pur processes more efficient for architects. In the UK you don’t need an architect to design a building, we haven’t listened to clients for so long that they are frustrated with us, most people are willing to gamble with low sums of money, but a home, a dream, a future, they are not willing to be pushed about.

]]> By: Twitted by SuButcher http://www.justpractising.com/whatgoodarchitectsdo/architects-aren%e2%80%99t-paid-enough-because-1-they-don%e2%80%99t-make-enough-money/comment-page-1/#comment-1155 Twitted by SuButcher Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:21:47 +0000 http://www.justpractising.com/?p=846#comment-1155 [...] This post was Twitted by SuButcher [...] [...] This post was Twitted by SuButcher [...]

]]> By: Twitted by ArchitectLeague http://www.justpractising.com/whatgoodarchitectsdo/architects-aren%e2%80%99t-paid-enough-because-1-they-don%e2%80%99t-make-enough-money/comment-page-1/#comment-1154 Twitted by ArchitectLeague Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:21:27 +0000 http://www.justpractising.com/?p=846#comment-1154 [...] This post was Twitted by ArchitectLeague [...] [...] This post was Twitted by ArchitectLeague [...]

]]> By: Daniel Tenner http://www.justpractising.com/whatgoodarchitectsdo/architects-aren%e2%80%99t-paid-enough-because-1-they-don%e2%80%99t-make-enough-money/comment-page-1/#comment-1031 Daniel Tenner Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:09:18 +0000 http://www.justpractising.com/?p=846#comment-1031 Hi Su, Great article, and seems right on the money. This could apply to any other high-value professions, too. Ultimately, "making money" is not the same as "doing something high-value". "Making money" is an activity that involves the pieces you mentioned (or other pieces, depending on the business). Basically, it's about creating a business model and feeding it the right stuff so that it can generate money. "Being an architect" is a high-value activity from all sorts of points of view, but if you're not doing the tasks that are actually generating the money, it stands to reason that you won't see most of the money... The same is true for all sorts of high-value professionals, including doctors, lawyers, and even software engineers. Hi Su,

Great article, and seems right on the money. This could apply to any other high-value professions, too. Ultimately, “making money” is not the same as “doing something high-value”. “Making money” is an activity that involves the pieces you mentioned (or other pieces, depending on the business). Basically, it’s about creating a business model and feeding it the right stuff so that it can generate money.

“Being an architect” is a high-value activity from all sorts of points of view, but if you’re not doing the tasks that are actually generating the money, it stands to reason that you won’t see most of the money…

The same is true for all sorts of high-value professionals, including doctors, lawyers, and even software engineers.

]]> By: uberVU - social comments http://www.justpractising.com/whatgoodarchitectsdo/architects-aren%e2%80%99t-paid-enough-because-1-they-don%e2%80%99t-make-enough-money/comment-page-1/#comment-1027 uberVU - social comments Thu, 05 Nov 2009 02:31:27 +0000 http://www.justpractising.com/?p=846#comment-1027 <strong>Social comments and analytics for this post...</strong> This post was mentioned on Twitter by LeadMakers: Architects aren't paid enough because 1: they don't make enough ...: The first thing you must get right.. http://bit.ly/IorVN... Social comments and analytics for this post…

This post was mentioned on Twitter by LeadMakers: Architects aren’t paid enough because 1: they don’t make enough …: The first thing you must get right.. http://bit.ly/IorVN...

]]> By: Tweets that mention Architects aren’t paid enough because 1: they don’t make enough money — Just Practising -- Topsy.com http://www.justpractising.com/whatgoodarchitectsdo/architects-aren%e2%80%99t-paid-enough-because-1-they-don%e2%80%99t-make-enough-money/comment-page-1/#comment-1026 Tweets that mention Architects aren’t paid enough because 1: they don’t make enough money — Just Practising -- Topsy.com Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:48:37 +0000 http://www.justpractising.com/?p=846#comment-1026 [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Su Butcher, Marjanne Pearson, Richard White, Heather Townsend, Su Butcher and others. Su Butcher said: New Blog Post: Architects aren’t paid enough because 1: they don’t make enough money — Just Practising http://ow.ly/z9G9 [...] [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Su Butcher, Marjanne Pearson, Richard White, Heather Townsend, Su Butcher and others. Su Butcher said: New Blog Post: Architects aren’t paid enough because 1: they don’t make enough money — Just Practising http://ow.ly/z9G9 [...]

]]> By: amonle http://www.justpractising.com/whatgoodarchitectsdo/architects-aren%e2%80%99t-paid-enough-because-1-they-don%e2%80%99t-make-enough-money/comment-page-1/#comment-1020 amonle Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:07:07 +0000 http://www.justpractising.com/?p=846#comment-1020 In architecture school nobody ever told me that I would be an entrepreneur if I was going to work on my own. For all the famously long years of architecture education how much time is spent making future architects aware of business and the client's view of what we do? I was very fortunate to work for a developer for a year and see the 'other side', from the inside and I have to say that the vast majority of architects that we dealt with just seemed clueless. Typically it was here is my service and my (19th century) fee system - ie my fee first, your project second. The fee bid to me is the heart and soul of your operation because if you screw that up you lose the job or you are stuck with it to the end doing something that doesn't work financially. This all flows back to realising your ideas because the best chance you have to achieve your creative ambitions is to work for yourself - and that means being a small businessperson / entrepreneur. Unfortunately this is nowhere in the culture of most architecture schools. My other peeve is project management. I never used PM software in 14 years of studying and practising architecture - until I tried it when I set up on my own. Why is Microsoft Project (I actually use Merlin) such foreign territory to us? Merlin immediately revolutionised the way I work. I started with the RIBA plan of work and expanded it into a template - and I use it for timing and costing for each project. Once the template is set up it is very fast and gives you a 'model' to operate with and resource. So one place to fix this is in education so that we think more like businesspeople (unless we prefer the image of the 'struggling artist'). Percentage and hourly fees should be a last resort. We need to re-think how we work with clients and align our goals more with theirs. There are many other ways that we already use. We need to use them more. In architecture school nobody ever told me that I would be an entrepreneur if I was going to work on my own. For all the famously long years of architecture education how much time is spent making future architects aware of business and the client’s view of what we do? I was very fortunate to work for a developer for a year and see the ‘other side’, from the inside and I have to say that the vast majority of architects that we dealt with just seemed clueless. Typically it was here is my service and my (19th century) fee system – ie my fee first, your project second.
The fee bid to me is the heart and soul of your operation because if you screw that up you lose the job or you are stuck with it to the end doing something that doesn’t work financially.
This all flows back to realising your ideas because the best chance you have to achieve your creative ambitions is to work for yourself – and that means being a small businessperson / entrepreneur. Unfortunately this is nowhere in the culture of most architecture schools.
My other peeve is project management. I never used PM software in 14 years of studying and practising architecture – until I tried it when I set up on my own. Why is Microsoft Project (I actually use Merlin) such foreign territory to us? Merlin immediately revolutionised the way I work. I started with the RIBA plan of work and expanded it into a template – and I use it for timing and costing for each project. Once the template is set up it is very fast and gives you a ‘model’ to operate with and resource.
So one place to fix this is in education so that we think more like businesspeople (unless we prefer the image of the ‘struggling artist’). Percentage and hourly fees should be a last resort. We need to re-think how we work with clients and align our goals more with theirs. There are many other ways that we already use. We need to use them more.

]]> By: Craig D. VanDevere http://www.justpractising.com/whatgoodarchitectsdo/architects-aren%e2%80%99t-paid-enough-because-1-they-don%e2%80%99t-make-enough-money/comment-page-1/#comment-1019 Craig D. VanDevere Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:11:10 +0000 http://www.justpractising.com/?p=846#comment-1019 Thanks Su, another timely blog post. I agree I think it is the delivery cycle where we as architects and the profession misses to communicate accurately and reflect the true costs associated with the design and the subsequent production of the documents. Not to mention very few clients are willing to pay the true value of our services since there seems to be always someone else willing to charge much less. The thing is we are not producing widgets that are designed once and produced many times. Each project is typically unique no matter how similar it may be to another project. The time to design, research, coordinate and manage are critical areas that appear to be underestimated and controlled. Thanks Su, another timely blog post. I agree I think it is the delivery cycle where we as architects and the profession misses to communicate accurately and reflect the true costs associated with the design and the subsequent production of the documents. Not to mention very few clients are willing to pay the true value of our services since there seems to be always someone else willing to charge much less. The thing is we are not producing widgets that are designed once and produced many times. Each project is typically unique no matter how similar it may be to another project. The time to design, research, coordinate and manage are critical areas that appear to be underestimated and controlled.

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